Whiteboard: Comments as Group Discussions

Sep 30, 2007

Whiteboard: Comments as Group Discussions
by Skellie

A diagram of comments as they are and comments as they could be.

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28 Comments, Comment or Ping

paidtwice

I don’t know how to do it, and I am totally a blog amateur. I probably should be reading a “Skellie 101″ version of this blog instead of the real thing.

But Michael Martin at Pro Blog Design - that second diagram is exactly what his comment threads are like. People talk to each other, people collaborate… his comment threads are sometimes more interesting than the (stellar) posts themselves!

Sep 30th, 2007
skellie

Paidtwice, I don’t have all the answers to this question either. I’m hoping that we can come up with some ideas if we all put our heads together.

(I’d also add, that both your blog and your comments show you to be exactly the kind of person I’m flattered to have reading this blog.)

Re: Pro Blog Design — perhaps the man himself will share some wisdom? :).

Sep 30th, 2007
SB

I don’t know how to do this, either. Sometimes it just happens — every so often there’s a ‘poem dance’ at Watermark — but when I’ve *tried* to get one going, it’s never worked. They have to emerge spontaneously from the commenters themselves.

Do you think the answer is in technology, or in something we can do, as bloggers, with the technology we already have?

Sep 30th, 2007
SB

Hmm, threaded commenting would be one way — maybe.

Sep 30th, 2007
skellie

I’ve found one thing that encourages more engagement between commenters is when someone posits a problem they’re experiencing and other commenters assist them. This isn’t always appropriate for every comment thread, though.

I’ve noticed this kind of commenting most frequently on opinion-based blogs, also. There might be some elements of the practice on these blogs that we could carry over to others.

Another possibility might simply be to let readers know that they’re encouraged to talk amongst themselves as well as to the author.

Sep 30th, 2007
craig

Threaded comments is definitely the current solution. For instance this Wordpress plugin:
http://meidell.dk/archives/2004/09/04/nested-comments/

However, what if you could create new posts from comments? Maybe registered subscribers could create posts in response to other posts and comments.

Each post has the standard comment form as well as a link to create a post in response. Worth looking into?

Sep 30th, 2007
skellie

Threaded comments would certainly make it easier for this kind of discussion to occur but it doesn’t change the motivations behind comments. For example, it’s possible to create a rudimentary equivalent by addressing other commenters like this:

@ Craig: (for example)

I think if a commenter truly wanted to address another they might use this method, or an equivalent, so perhaps it’s more about creating a comment culture where people feel they can and are encouraged to address others in the first place. But I do think threaded comments are definitely one step towards facilitating this.

I think the posts idea could work on a certain more communal based blog but I think allowing commenters to create posts of their own would involve a loss of control few of us egotistical bloggers would be willing to experience ;).

Sep 30th, 2007
ChrisB

I’ve seen it on a few sites; I don’t know how you create it — maybe it’s just a function of the personalities involved.

Here’s one where the commentors talk to the host and each other quite a bit — and keep it civil. Perhaps you can study it and find the answer: Jesus Creed

Sep 30th, 2007
engtech

Comments should just be like discussion forum / message board software.

Each blog post is a subject, and you can view a list of the most recently commented on posts, etc.

I created this Greasemonkey script to at least hopefully facilitate the left-hand side of that graph more: http://internetducttape.com/tools/wordpress/wordpress-comment-ninja/

Sep 30th, 2007
craig

OK, I ended up doing something like I said earlier on my blog.
Just using open Wordpress registration, user limits and a simple linkback button I’ve allowed users the option to just plain old comment, or sign up to respond to articles in full with their own full article.

http://crrrg.com/response-comments-as-group-discussions/

Overkill? Or just a step into open multi-author blogging.

Sep 30th, 2007
Mohsin

It happens on online forums, where people quote each other and have discussions, but this kind of interaction is very difficult to achieve on blogs. Mainly because blogs are personal and they belong to one person (or a group of people) whereas on forums, anyone can start a thread and have the discussion going.

The same thing happens on Digg, where users generate the content as well as discussions.

So, unless a blogger says something controversial that splits his readers in two groups, it is hard to hold discussions in comments.

Sep 30th, 2007
Michael from Pro Blog Design

Thanks PaidTwice. I agree entirely that the comments are often better than the articles!

I don’t think that it’s technology that can really help with this (Threaded comments might help a little, but it also has some big downsides).

I think the most that you as a blogger can do is encourage a good community. Your style of writing, frequency of posting and replies to comments all go towards creating a a friendly community, and building loyal readers. Those loyal readers then tend to be the ones who start the reader-reader discussions (And once a discussion is started, then anyone can join in!)

Beyond that, you can’t really force it. I know that on Pro Blog Design, I never actually aimed for any sort of reader comment in particular. I just kicked up as many conversations as I could. I got lucky with my commenters being such fantastic and helpful people.

Sep 30th, 2007
Ankesh Kothari

Short answer: Stop blogging. Start a forum.

On a blog, the publisher has the biggest voice. On a forum, everyone has equal voice. You will always build a stronger bond on a forum.

Here is the flip side:

If you want to position “yourself” as an expert, you need to blog. If you just want conversations, a forum is what you should create.

Oct 1st, 2007
paidtwice

Aww now I am blushing

Oct 1st, 2007
Michael from Pro Blog Design

Ankesh - You’ve given me a thought!

Topical conversations are started by disagreements (Debates etc. One person says something, and someone else has a different view). On a forum, I find that I love jumping into such debates. It’s a lot of fun!

However, on a blog, I don’t. I think the reason for that is that I’m much more accountable for what I say in a blog comment than on a forum post, and I’m worried that I might start up an argument on someone else’s blog. I could end up with both the person I replied to and the blog owner, being angry at me! It’s safer not to say anything at all.

An example of that is this very comment. I had a whole other comment written out about forums taking forever to maintain and such, but deleted it because I didn’t want to be a pain in the neck. It was only afterwards when I was on a forum that I thought about why I hadn’t replied to you.

Oct 1st, 2007
Ken Dahlin

If I’m not mistaken, ExpressionEngine with the forum module should do what you’re looking for.

Oct 1st, 2007
Mats Bergman

Threaded comments work, but I´ve never seen a good implementation - yet, that is.

But I think some form of graphical representation is the way to go.

Perhaps a combination of inlining and color markers with gradual shift of colors along a scale. To the eye this would make some of the comments more attention-grabbing.

Think of this as follows. For regular comments you’d have them all in one long row below your post. But if someone make a comment on an existing comment, this new comment would be inlined the equivalent of a tab-length and marked with a slightly more intense or dark colour. And if there is a comment reply directly to the last inlined comment, the new comment would be inlined a second step and marked with an even more intense of darker colour.

This way you make it easy for the human brain to see where the action is on the page and take appropriate action; that is, to read comments and respond to them. In effect, you create heat-maps

Inlining, of course, work both ways. It also make it easy for those of your reader that are only interested in comments directly to the blogged piece to find just those. Those readers would just keep their eyes to the left and read the comments lining up along the margin. Heat-maps work the other way and make the onlined comments-to-comments visually interesting.

Oct 1st, 2007
Mats Bergman

On a second note, comments feed are also a good way to stay connected with some of your users.

Take me as an example: I keep a special section in my feedreader for posts I’ve recently commented on, to see what more interesting is coming up in the discussion and if I’m apostrophed by later commenters I might consider to clarify my point.

Oct 1st, 2007
Randy Aldrich

I like it! Although I think Craig is on to something bigger and better.

I’d like to see something that turns comments and blog posts themselves into a giant discussion. If one blogger ‘replies’ to another with a new post, that should be included in the same ‘discussion’ right? they both just have equal voice.

I’d like to see a system where I see every ‘discussion’ i’m involved in whether its a comment I posted or an article I wrote. I envision it similar to the way GMail views E-mails (as discussions).

Hmmm what did I just start?

Oct 1st, 2007
Steve Grossman

Wiki is the first thing that came to mind when I saw the diagram. Perhaps we need a wiki commenting engine that literally builds the diagram you’ve displayed with each connected box being a topic. Hmmm…

Oct 3rd, 2007
Karthik

@Mats
Drupal Groups offers the same thing that you mention - it does keep the layout cleaner than threaded comments does.

Oct 7th, 2007
marguerite manteau-rao

Here are a few random thoughts, from a relatively newbie:

1) My understanding of what is ‘expected’ of me when I comment on a post, is that I will comment on the post itself. The focus is on the person who wrote he post. Other comments, I experience as secondary.

2) Unlike a forum, where the focus is more on everybody in the thread.

3) Wiki is yet another channel. I must say I love the simplicity of the blog.

4) I am on Wordpress and they have this place where I can follow threads for comments I made on other blogs, but that is only for other Wordpress blogs. One of my frustrations actually is that I do comment a lot, but have no way of keeping track of what happens after my comment.

5) As a blogger, it never occurred to me that I could use my blog as some kind of forum place. This does not mean that this is something I am not interested in. I just never thought of it that way, from having observed others’ practices, and modeling mines after them.

6) In term of logistics, it might be as simple as providing two options for comments, respond to post, or respond to specific comment. If I am not mistaken, the Huffington Post has an option like that, using pointing arrows.

7) Nothing prevents blogger, just like you did Skellie, to play moderator role, and weave in and out of the thread as need be. But in order for the group effect to take place, there needs to be that notify function that lets me know what is happening after I commented. That function should be triggered anytime someone comments on a blog (Wordpress model). I do not want to subscribe to a zillion comments, only the ones I am involved in.

In one of my previous lives, I was a group psychotherapist. Little did I know blogging would bring me back to more discussions about groups . . .

Oct 8th, 2007
kristarella

Haha - I was going to mention Pro Blog Design, but Paidtwice beat me to it. I agree with Michael that disagreement can start people talking to each other. Perhaps if you said something controversial or bordering on controversial people would have more of a need to address each other. However one needs to be careful because that sort of thing can get nasty and/or tiresome.

Oct 15th, 2007